update:
Because this film does not portray the events completly, I ask that you listen to this podcast by bicycle mark before posting.
AudioCommunique #83(mp3)
31min+, 80kbps, 17Mb+
This post would have probably been understood better had the title read, “Is Amsterdam becoming a policed state?”
It is not a major event folks, but it is a warning sign. It’s not about being searched on the streets or about being Dutch or American, it’s about civil rights and how much of your freedom you are willing to give away for the feeling of security? I would have gladly been searched if there was some terrorist, or illegal action taking place in the area. But there was not. I was simply walking in an open space, and EVERYONE was being frisked. There was no discrimination by the police on that point. I agree that in other countries this is MUCH worse. I always felt safe in the Netherlands, and always respected the way the Police carried themselves. Up until now. That’s what this is about, nothing more, nothing less.
As far as the palbeach video that people are reffering to: It is very shocking to see what happend. The woman was speeding and was asked repeatedly to step out of her vehicle. She was breaking the law, and then resisting the officer’s to step out of her car. I don’t think walking out of a restuarant constitues breaking the law.
I know the footage that I filmed is not enough to give the whole picture. I wish I could have had it running the whole time, but I can’t film my life 24-7, and furthermore it’s not about America. Pavle says it best: “Does this put it in the same league as blacklisted torture camps? Of course not. Then again, the film is an off-the-cuff personal item and should not be seen as an intentional statement on the state of the world.”
No related posts.
Weren’t you guys in the red light district? There are other rules applied. And yes, those cops were just morons.
…Better then tased in the US!
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/news/video/taser_video3a.html
QED
Stop crying u bitch.
Rules apply for everybody no exceptions.
Ive u dont like it whats stoppping u to go back to your all wonderfull land of the free etc shithole?
U are just an other example of US stupidity thinking the world turns around them.
And? So? What?
a) you’re a visitor; act like one
b) when a police officer asks for your cooperation, work with them, they’re just doing their job.
It can happen; being asked for ID’s and being frisked while in Amsterdam. It’s done randomly in certain public areas, especially on busy nights like friday or saturday. They collect a lot of knives and other weapons that way.
It’s no fun, but just go along with it and you’ll be on your way again in minutes. Or, be a smartass about it and start an irrelevant and boring discussion.
Christ, you should see what american customs put tourists through before letting them in.
In conclusion; this only confirmes what i already knew; all lawyers are assholes and i haven’t seen an exception to this rule yet.
Ah well… Dutch officers should search every American who comes to The Netherlands…
Anyway… we in the Netherlands are mild. We don’t use stun guns. They are prohibited I think, because it’s torture or cruel behaviour against humans. But eh… we know what you Americans do with your prisoners:
http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444
Ubu Ghraib is against all human rights…
Your complaining about our police misbehaviour, is like a chinese complaining about the sparrow that was shot.Makes no sence. If you want to do something about human rights go to Guantanomo Bay.I would like to hear you complain there.I actually would like you there.
You should have tried the same shit with the french police, THEN you had something to write home about!
Whoooooot……Thta search is nothing…wait till Bubba searches you.Than you can scream about being violated.
See this as a nice lesson that you shouldn’t go around videotaping everyone..(try this for example near the Pentagon or some other high risk building in the US.)
So, stop whining and enjoy the hits on your not so amazing blog and your 15 minutes of fame with this piece of footage
Why do americans think Holland is liberal? You have a blurred vision of Holland. Stop living in the past. Does the invading of Irak and therefore the dostroying of a foreign culture/people stand for American liberalism?? Than I am not a liberal!!!
Rules are fucking rules in the Netherlands! You don’t like the rules? Don’t come here.
Read it suckers http://www.politie-amsterdam-amstelland.nl/frameset/get.cfm?id=209
A lot of you seem to have a wrong idea of the authority Dutch police officers have nowadays. I think you all watched Pulp Fiction in which it is claimed that Dutch police officers do not have the right to stop and/or frisk you. Sadly enough, the cops DO have the right to do preventive friskin’ to their liking.
Did you by any chance catch a glimpse of Natalee Holloway with your camera?
…How naive,…
16,137 murders & 94,635 rapes in the United States in 2004,
Rape Up, While Murders Down in 2004
By MARK SHERMAN
The Associated Press
Monday, October 17, 2005; 12:08 PM
http://ap.washingtontimes.com/dynamic/stories/F/FBI_VIOLENT_CRIME?SITE=DCTMS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-10-17-16-36-50
QED
Any of you American guys got any idea what EVERY foreigner visiting the USA have to go through at any of your international airports? Mistreatment of foreign visitors is an American speciality.
You really made an ass of yourself…I must say dutch police handled this ‘situation’ very mature and didn’t let themselves be provocated by a supposed ‘laywer’ and his ‘first-time-out-of-the-states’friend
You shoulda listened, instead of being a smartass. It’s sad that it has to be that way, but it’s the only way nowadays.
oh. and mail me please:
f.depauw@quicknet.nl
if u dare!
For any English-speakiuing readers, here’s my take.
There have been several shootings in Amsterdam during the preceding weeks and there certainly is, contrary to the random image presented at the end of the film, reason for the authorities to step up surveillance. The rather childish pair were simply provoking a reaction. It is good that their faces are on the internet. I’ll be looking out for them. The police are the only people standing between me and some distinctly dangerous people. I respect them because in 25 years in this country, as an adult ex-pat from Britain, they have never given me reason to dislike them. That is a great track record, and a tribute from someone who grew up in seventies (terrorism ravaged)Britain who brought an attitude along with himself. They take risks for me, so don’t fuck with them. If leftwing Americans want to project their puerile fantasies onto the Dutch, then the only thing they achieve is to reveal how ignorant they are. You might try learning a language if you’re not too stoned. It helps to know the circumstances before you open your big fat prejudiced mouth.
Cynics have (partially) destroyed the liberal atmosphere in the Netherlands, so they have also damaged my life. Don’t misjudge the mood.
I don’t know why you got stopped by the cop in the first place, but from what i can see is that he is trying to explain why they are going to search you and why they are entitled to do so (new acts as result of terrorism threats and increased violence in downtown Amsterdam – where you were).
Then you think to know why they are NOT allowed and start acting up. Now that kind of behaviour will not be tolerated by any cop wherever in the world. Realise that cops are being insulted and deal with people who think to know better every day so his being pissed off i can understand. You should have judged the situation a bit better and just dropped it. What’s the point, it’s for your own safety.
In another country the reaction could have been far worse and I think you know this very well.
Can’t and won’t blame you for putting it online though, cause the same experience in USA by a Dutch guy would have lead to the same being blogged on a site here.
Keep coming to Amsterdam people, you can still have experiences here out in the open that you won’t be able to do anywhere else.
Junglim
…There will be a time that you guys will walk into locked doors as well…you’ll regret…!
Guess that each different nation get the leader they deserve!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolavconsole/ifs_news/hi/nb_rm_fs.stm?checkedBandwidth=nb&nbram=1&subtitles=hide&checkedMedia=ram&news=1&bbwm=1&nbwm=1&bbram=1&nol_storyid=4455316
Yes we were a very liberal and free country, until those fucking Bush-americans decided to go to war in Iraq, and gave all the fucking terrorists a good reason to terrorize us all…. So shut the fuck up with your videoblog and go tell Bush to get the hell out of Iraq, so we can be free and liberal again and all you us bloggers can come here and smoke and fuck and drink again.
Would you 2 bitches be bitching, as you are, if you had been filming a person being searched by the police then finding a bomb or guns, knives, etc?? No, don’t think so huh!
It’s just the fact that your American bubble had been violated by a non-American police officer and that pisses you off.
Go back to George and your land of the free, where no one gets randomly searched by the police (as if…).
Leave Amsterdam and Holland before you people drag it down even further!
Well actually, I don’t think you are a lawyer. The dutch Gemeentewet (citylaw) has an article in it, 151b wich grants the mayor the right to give a certain area, in wich violence is likely to occure, an saftey-hazard tag. In this are the police can search you’re clothes and/or car and/or pacakages you are carrying, on grounds of articles 50 to 52 of the wet wapens en munitie (dutch firearms law).
You can offcourse film the cops in this procces and there isn’t much they can do about this.
The police is doing their job, so just don’t be so irritating. The police is right in this case. The Dutch police isn’t so bad..
Try to be so irritating to a Spanish, Us or French cop. Then you would have a movie we could enjoy!
Tip: Know the law before coming to our country.
Stupid Whiners
Do you want The Netherlands to be liberal again? Then go on to the streets in your own country and rally against all the hostile actions American Forces are taking all over the world in the name of ‘justice’ and ‘democracy’.
If people in a country like living in a dictatorship, then let them, even if there is oil to be found there.
Our government of bad-hairday-pussies is acting towards the US as a dog to its master. So why do you think all of a sudden frisking-for-no-reason is so commonplace in “risk area’s”? These area’s are where there are a lot of people, so a potential bombing-area. We are now using the USA-way of dealing with a threat of terrorism, thank you for that!
Oh, and when you do hit the streets in your own country, be sure to film that as well. I’m curious how your own fine policeforce will treat you. Remember, you only got frisked in A’dam!
God, nag nag nag, if you haven gotten stabbed that night you would have nagged too right? The frisks are there to make it safer to go out and walk outside at night. And maybe you cant understand that they frisks RANDOM people, that also includes people who might not be planning to do bad stuff. Two people walking on a street like you were might not be a big treath, but two people like you could also be having knives and stuff in your pockets. They cant discriminate, so they randomly frisk people, and they have the right to do so. It’s dutch law, and guess what, you were on dutch soil, as in not owned by the USA, so US laws dont apply. But I guess in the US its normal to just frisk black people and let the white man walk. Because you would never be able to be a treath right? I hope you enjoy going out in the USA, and maybe you will have the luck to get stabbed/shot by a person who might have been busted with a random frisk. No hard feelings, like the police officers said, dont like it? Go back to your own country… for once it really is that simple…
Cops in most other countries (including some European, but for sure the USA) would have used physical violence in a similar case as the one videotaped by you.
Consider yourself lucky you did this in Holland. Take this sad blog offline and next spring break go to Florida instead.
Gabe,
You were just annoying an officer, then you play the victim, which is pretty sad by the way. Plus the fact that you are saying your a mediaman; im sorry, you are given a very onesided signal. Excuse me for my language, im Dutch.
You were told by the police, you guys were in an ‘emergency area’, the officer meant u guys are in an area, were every person, suspect and non-suspect, can be hold to search clothin for weapons ex. This is a LAW, police-officers handle the LAW. If you have a problem, go whine at the government who make the LAW.
Plus, I’m glad im Dutch, if i see all these similar reactions of people, all saying the same dumb things. If there was just one person, looking up things, like you Gabe, you would have find out that you were WRONG and whining!!!
Anyway how long did this take? I myself am hold regular one or more hours at the Laredo border carrying a Dutch passport, the different is I don’t piss them off because I know I will be screwed.
Not to mention the times I was separated at Houston airport – on a connection to Holland that is – where the wanted to check my passport, 45 minutes without explanation, close to 2 hours when coming back a week later…, go play with you cam at that spot.
Not that i get shocked like people writing comments here, I know before leaving I am facing a shit trip due to butthead Yankees.
Did I mention, carrying a Dutch passport but still pictures been taken as well fingerprints, every f*cking time I cross your f*cking border? Like they can’t manage a bloody database those yanks.
Thanks to you americans we are having this situation here in the Netherlands. If you wouldn´t be going out stealing oil and killing innocent people in the Middle East, we could be living here peacefully.
The reason u got searched is ure own Bush. He started all the madness! And if someone doenst wants 2 be filmed, u shouldnt film. Those cops are just doing their job. In every other country they would have crashed ure camera and beat the shit out of u.
Noobz!
In the US the cops first shoot and then ask…
So what are you complaining about?
If it ain’t Dutch it ain’t much
Aan onze lieve Hollandsche Freunden zeg ik: dank voor jullie hartelijke welkomstboodschappen.
Voor de rechtsliefhebbers onder jullie : kijk even naar de uistpraak van de Amsterdamse gerechtshof LJN: AU3200, 23.645.05 op http://www.rechtspraak.nl. Preventief fouilleren op deze wijze is door de rechter illegaal bevonden.
Excuse me, All who have their opinion about ‘the wanker americans’ ready:
1. We don’t want Holland to turn into the next USA, maybe that’s what the discussion should be about? And that’s exactly what this particular American is trying to say. Maybe he doesn’t want the European atmsophere to change into the American?
2. It’s about civil richt. Everybody got search, male female, black, white and yellow, Dutch and foreign, because there was a so called ‘emergency’ on Leidseplein. (which they couldn’t see)
3. At this moment, as far as we know, it is illegal to search just anybody if there is no just cause. (aanleiding/ verdacht gedrag)
4. These two men (just one of them American btw-get your information straight) have both been living in Amsterdam for several decades and have received their education here in Holland.
5. The one who’s not American is actually a Dutch Lawyer, so he does know what the fuck he’s talking about.
6. All the respectless assumptions get me really fucking pissed off, as if they were tourists misbehaving….! Fuck you, they pay more taxes than most of you, and really contribute to this society.
All they want is fror Holland not to turn into a second USA, and keep citizens aware of their rights, as theirs get violated.
7. Funny how people can turn all fascist on you when you’re trying to keep the rest od teh world turn into a next USA. The whole point being that it is NOT about being American, but a citizen of this country.
8. If the police had ASKED them to cooporate, they would have. It is the fact that they did not and did not want to answer the questions that these two men, (who ar NOT visitors, but uitzien of Holland!!!!) asked them about the frisking not being legal.
Let’s keep the discussion about civil rights and not living in fear of terrorism. What rights are you willing to give up for safety?
any kind of a priori disrespect from the authorities towards its civilians destroys the fabric of democracy
@Tamara
Lul gewoon Nederlands als je het tegen ons hebt. Of, laat je gehele reactie maar achterwege.
En natuurlijk is er een aanleiding maar die wordt niet getoond in het filmpje. Je arm in het openbaar in iemand’s reet stoppen is verboden.
Die 2 knakkers moeten gewoon niet zeiken. En laten ze eerst maar eens naar hun eigen politie kijken. (maar dat durven ze niet te filmen!)
well, I put a post on my blog where I was able to let off some steam …
I don’t understand some of you (commenting) guys. Just chill out will you? Respect each others freedom of mind and speech and don’t get personal for god’s sake-
…Try anger management if you find yourself strangling your pets
or family and friends from time to time…
and try to read a good book now and then.
I am overun with the love you guys are sending. Thank you for all the comments. Some of you actually thought about what this is showing rather than going along with the masses. To those few I aplaud you. Let me just get some things straight here:
- I am ashamed of what happens in the United States with these random searches. If you were not aware NY city just recently had a large debate about the exact same thing. And yes I have been searched in the U.S. before. However there has always been a reason for it, i.e. I was entering an airport, subway station or other enclosed public space. Not publicly on the street.
- My friend is a Dutch lawyer, and knows what the fuck he is talking about when he says that the random searching action is not legal, according to the Tweede Kamer.
- You xenophobes really scare me. I’ve been living in the Netherlands for half my life, and probably for longer than some of you who have been posting go back to your own country.
- Yes it is bad in America. That is the point. If you don’t want it to turn into America 2.0 I suggest you seriously start rethinking your comments and start taking action to preserve the civil rights you have while you still have them. Before long the Dutch could be seeing themselves have their own Patriot Act in effect. I don’t want to see that as much as you don’t.
- I apologize for trying to stand up for my and your rights as citizens of the Netherlands. I guess it’s true what that say in holland, “Doe je normaal, do je al gek genoeg.” If we keep with this credo, watch our civil rights disappear in the face of fear.
- I turned off the anonymous comments as I felt people were just starting to spam hate messages. This is not a censorship action as even weblogs like geenstijl and insane films have the same measures in place. If you really want to post a comment, register and post. Think about what you post, and try not to be a xenophobe.
As a last note, stop flamming everyone people. This is supposed to be a discussion, not a yelling festival. Whatever your feelings are on the subject, I am sure there is a validity to it, but think before you post please.
@ Karelk: Liever in het Nederlands? Kan mij wat schelen.
Vraag me af wanneer bij jou het kwartje valt dat het niet gaat om Amerika of Nederland en de tegenstellingen daarin. Feit is dat een groot deel van Europa anti-Amerika is en zoals Bush en consorten zich de afgelopen jaren hebben geprofileerd in onder andere Irak etc, ja, daar heb ik ook mijn mening over en die zal misschien weinig van de jouwe verschillen. Maar daar gaat het dus niet om.
En om iedere willekeurige Amerikaan (of Engelssprekende gefilmde vriend)daarop aan te spreken terwijl die juist een punt wil maken over de onwetmatigheid van dit soort zaken in NL, lijkt mij de plank nogal mis te slaan.
Nog even een herhaling van een andere comment:
“Voor de rechtsliefhebbers onder jullie : kijk even naar de uistpraak van de Amsterdamse gerechtshof LJN: AU3200, 23.645.05 op http://www.rechtspraak.nl. Preventief fouilleren op deze wijze is door de rechter illegaal bevonden.”
Daar gaat het om. En zoals je op In-Ah’s blog zegt: jij leest liever een boek? Probeer er eentje over de Nederlandse wet?
Zal mij hierna weer tot de Engelse taal beperken om deze blog voor wereldburgers leesbaar te houden. Think outside of the box…(of landsgrenzen…)
or go see a good movie…
‘Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire’ comes to mind.
I hear he gets frisked by some hot mermaids and ‘sent home’ by a bunch of nasty grindylows…
sorry couldn’t resist
@Tamara
Staat het boek ook op uittreksel.nl? Dan lees ik het daar wel. En nee, ik denk absoluut in hokjes (1 hokje wel te verstaan!) Wat heeft de van de wereld mij te bieden? (behalve de cultuur)
Ik ga weer in mijn hokje. Zwaai zwaai Tamara!
@ In-Ah:
Thanks for putting a smile on my face. After all these negative vibes it’s nice to focus on your huge talent as an animator for a change.
Maybe we should consider having political discussions like these at home in the future, since it apperently is quite impossible to talk about the issue at hand online. Although I would so much like to believe that there are more people like us who want to think and talk about moral issues without throwing dirt at each other.
Cheers
Seriously, what is the problem.
First of all, you are actually misinformed: the police can only do this because it was mandated by politics – they have to ask for special permission. If you had cared to listen, that was what he was trying to explain to you.
Besides which, the cops were actually quite friendly and even explained what they were doing and why.
Don’t be whining bitches.
Go find something that’s actually worth being angry over. Secret CIA-prisons in the eastern block comes to mind. This is gay.
I agree Hans there are worse things than this. As there are better blogs than this for political discussions on the matter. This is just what happend to me (Gabemac) and my friend Pavle. Not the other Gabe by the way for all clarity.
I disagree the cops didn’t give us a legal reason for searching us or anyone else who walked by the same spot that night. But it doesn’t matter. They searched us anyway, and I would have let them search me if there was a terrorist action in the area, someone was murdered or what have you. None of that was the case. So you feel I’m winning about the situation, fine. I just posted what happend to me like I do with many things in my life. That’s what I do as a video blogger. I would do the same thing in the states and probably be arrested for that or worse. I agree. I always felt safe in Holland, living here for half my life. It was a shock to have this type of treatment happen here as I feel Amsterdam is more my home than anywhere else in the world.
And we were not drunk. I had half a beer.I was not being abusive or mean, but being calm. Like I am trying to be now. Please note this is not about being American or Dutch. It’s about how much personal privacy do you release for security. That is the discussion.
Hans,
I’m afraid you’re missing a point when you comment on the basis for the search. The specific order (‘last’) is given by the ‘Officier van Justitie’ (Public Prosecutor) who is a member of the appointed (as in: not elected) judiciary. Furthermore, he does this on the basis of a scope defined by the mayor (who is also an appointed/non-elected official). So that if by saying politics, you wish to say it was done by a democratically controlled institution, you are wrong.
The appelate court in Amsterdam found these actions illegal less than two months ago but the mayor has continued them in a slightly changed form.
Now as far as the rest of the world’s ills are concerned, our encounter with the police officers on Friday was not fun for us. Does this put it in the same league as blacklisted torture camps? Pfcourse not. Then again, the film is an off-the-cuff personal item and should not be seen as an intentional statement on the state of the world.
Gabemac,
I understand your empathy…
What I do not understand is, why you 1. only show a video which doesnt even get close to showing the whole picture of what you are suggesting; this law isnt legal.
And 2. why do you “spam” this video to other websites, given off even more ‘not-realistic’ issues.
I think thats why much people are angry about this video.
The fact that you are seriously talking in this log about this law, its a shame you undermine it with this video. I respect your opionion. I just dont like the way you use the video. This is just media-attention, placing the police-officer as the badguy, while he is executing the law.
Your so-called ‘lawyer’ friend should known better;
In de grondwet staat dat de burgermeester bevoegd is gemeentelijke verordeningen kan bepalen. Dit preventiebeleid is een gemeentelijke verordening.
Greetz, Chris
lol u guys are stupid
so dont try acting a smartass if u dont know what you’re talking about. Also, if u guys had nothing to hide and had just co-operated, the lame cop also would’n get “pissed off” at u guys…
obviously the police has the right to frisk you there…it’s called prevention
b happy u can still carry 5 grams of softdrugs around here
greetings from a Dutchi
First of all, you could have co operarted with the officer. He has a right to do what he did. Not all criminals wear bandana’s and not all terrorists walk on sandals.
In the USA this would be done much more agressive and with much more force. I was searched my self 4 times leaving JFK two years ago.
I even had to tka off my shoes and my fingerprints were taken from my bag, without asking.
I agree, it feels terrible to be searched , but is a different world today.
In holland you can murder someone in cold blood and be out of prison in 12 years, you can drink and blow what ever you want and the dutch seldomy carry a gun.
It is is not such a bad country.